Talk:Andrew Ryan
Trivia and Speculation Okay I'm new so I may not be the best at discusing but Andrew Ryan I have to say dose bare a strange reseblense to Orson Welles and even sounds like him a bit. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by (talk • ) 17:21, 2008 January 14. Please sign your posts with ~~~~! :Is It just me or does Andrew ryan resemble Enoch Powell (old conservative politician). —The preceding unsigned comment was added by (talk • ) 19:20, 2008 March 9. Please sign your posts with ~~~~! ::Andrew Ryan has a striking resemblance to Vincent Price. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by (talk • ) 05:02, 2008 August 21. Please sign your posts with ~~~~! The Trivia section is long, and is mostly just peoples' random speculation about similarities. I suggest that the "trivia" be restricted only to things that the creators of BioShock have mentioned in press releases. Everything else, while certainly interesting, should be moved to the talk page where it belongs.--Gardimuer 23:35, November 1, 2009 (UTC) (These are speculations about similarities that were never stated by the developers of BioShock.) * His appearance is very similar to that of actor Vincent Price (especially on the Audio-Diary portrait) * His appearance and voice also evoke actor Orson Welles as he appeared in the film Citizen Kane, a movie that centers on a powerful press magnate who ultimately alienates everyone close to him due to his hubris and ego and finds himself alone and isolated in his decaying palace full of beautiful artworks. * Ryan's destroying Rapture is reminiscent from d'Anconia's, from Atlas Shrugged, worthless San Sebastian mine, in that the effort he put into it was considerably outweighed by the effort the 'Looters' put in to exploit it. Eg: while Ryan invested a sizable portion of his life in building Rapture it was only his life. Fontaine/Atlas invested not only his own life but also the lives of Jack, Jasmine, Langford, Wilkins and countless others in seizing control, and summarily got very little for their pains(Fontaine's capture of Rapture was short lived and ultimately ended with his death). * Also Ryan can be seen to resemble d'Anconia, 'as he is willing to compromise his principles to defeat the 'Looter' enemy which cannot be otherwise defeated. Perhaps he did have some grand plan to defeat Atlas and return victorious, perhaps his plan was Jack, a living metaphor for Ryan himself; he that was controlled by his foes into unspeakable acts, does himself defeat his foes by sheer resolve and will power. * By some interpretations of what he says he appears to be a hypocrite. However Objectivism as a whole justifies much of what he says and does. That not withstanding though, much of what he says and does towards the end, chronologically, contradicts what he says in the early days: **For example in his speech he states, "Is a man not entitled to the sweat of his brow." When Fontaine proves to be more businesses savvy, he orders him to be killed and nationalizes his company. This is, however, only after allowing Fontaine to amass his fortunes. It is only when Fontaine shows real threat of becoming a tyrant. As shown by his recordings in Arcadia; e.g. 'Offer a better product'. It is also with the complete knowledge that Fontaine is a 'Looter'(See ''Atlas Shrugged). **'................ ^^^^ Does he ? Its more that Fontaine is behind the huge Smuggling operation (that 'One Law thing' ) and Ryan finally has proof of the Treason against Rapture (and Ryan certainly held off long enough) that he take Fontaine down '' (and Fontain has no family or business partners, and lack of ADAM makes people Insane, so nationalizing the company to keep it running seems a prudent measure for the interim)' **........ **He also says, "Where the great would not be confined by the small." But almost immediately he begins making rules and regulations, which suit him best, allowing him to control the population of rapture. This spate of rules are, however, limited to only one rule 'No Contact with the Surface', which is later expanded into Smuggling and then into the war on Fontaine. But fundamentally Ryan is the 'greatest' because he built Rapture and he is not 'confined' by the 'small' because he does not take their views into consideration, as shown by 'Arresting Fontaine'.. **' ....... "immediately he begins making rules and regulations" like ??? Then you contradict this by saying "spate of rules are, however, limited to only one rule 'No Contact with the Surface'," One rule is not a 'spate' and his longterm goals (likely shouted to the heavenes in official propaganda/public announce ments from the start were to make Rapture SELF_SUFFICIENT''' **'.............. ^^^^^^^^ Does He ??? 1946 to 1958 when a CIVIL WAR is in progress and citizens are being murdereed in the streets by Splicers under Fontaines/Atlas's control ??? Under what circumstances would you then have Ryan be allowed to start putting measures into effect to battle those who are trying to destroy Rapture??? ' **Ryan even goes as far as charging admission for Arcadia and selling oxygen. Both of these are, however, perfectly acceptable parts of the Objectivist philosophy and, indeed, fit with his policy of burning his above-water forest rather than let "the rabble" "stand slack-jawed under the canopy and pretend that it was paradise earned." Additionally Arcadia, doubtlessly, took a great deal of investment on Ryan's part, and to merely provide it as a free service because it is required makes as much sense as providing free electricity when it costs you money to buy the coal to burn. ***'Funny wasnt this the way EVERYONE who went to Ratpure was told over and over how the place was supposed to work ??? Are you calling for Ryan to go AGAINST his principals and RAPTURES here ??? You cant have it both ways.' **Furthermore he states "No Gods or Kings only Man," and in his speech "Where the scientist would not be constrained by petty morality," yet he expresses shock, when he discovers Jasmine Jolene sold his son's embryo. This manifests a murderous rage and he beats her to death with a pipe. Though this could just as easily be seen as betraying him, selling out his 'property'. Additionally petty morality is morality which stands in the way of progress, not morality in general. As McDonagh, Sullivan and Tenenbaum show morality is not something to be abandoned but an integral part of Objectivism; it defines what takes you forward and what holds you back; i.e. Selling your child, your ticket to immortality, will definitely hold you back. ***'.........................^^^^^^^ ... First it (embryo) was stolen from HIM and sold to his Enemy the criminal Fontaine which is a betrayal and could only be a weapon to be used against Ryan. Since Petty Morality isnt possible to give reason for justice, then Personal Justice needs be taken when it is due. Ryan does this by retaliating against those who have perpetrated crimes against himself. The threat of such action is what make the 'no laws' Objectivist system work (its actually a dim perversion of Objectivism where there ARE lots of laws and authorities authorized to enforce them - its a Strawman on part of Devs to force a Dystopia ) . Just because the Game Developers are attempting to judge and force their conclusions onto us, doesnt mean that we are all sheep and follow their misunderstandings/ignorance/coersion Ryan actaully did what was proper under Raptures Social Contract' ** **He says "Where the artist would not fear the censor," but orders Sullivan to assassinate Anna Culpepper after she insulted Sander Cohen by releasing her song, "Ryan's Songbird". ***'........----------- ^^^^^^ ...... Is it ??? Or was she part of the conspiracy to steal the Embryo Seems she was at her subversive activities for quite a while and Ryan did nothing. Then the Embryo incident comes up and she gets whacked - something reserved for those who have betrayed Ryan personally.' (others were hung publicly as Smugglers officially and Persephone held exiles (not killed/murdered as Fontaine or Lamb instantly would have done) *** **He also claims to have made Rapture a place where "The great would not be confined by the small." Yet he fanatically tries to remain in power doing things from placing a bounty on Jack's head, to sending hordes of splicers after him to even gassing Julie Langford and even trying to suffocate Jack by destroying Arcadia. Finally, he went so far as to try to blow Rapture up to prevent Atlas from seizing control. Though it could be argued that placing a bounty on Jack's head was simply pest control, preventing the 'CIA' or 'KGB' 'Looters' from invading Rapture. Additionally, Arcadia and Rapture are both, fundamentally, his; to do with what he wishes. If he so chooses to throw his entire oxygen producing capacity, and later the entire city, behind destroying a single rogue operator then that is his choice. Choice being the very foundation of Objectivism. ***''' .......................^^^^^ I guess its just they dont teach proper history in school any more. Look what FDR did during WW2 to curtail liberties and freedoms 'for the duration' in order to fight an eenmy who would have destroyed us. War is a completley different situation calling for strong measure (or simply lose/surrender) and anyone who thinks differently is an ignoramus. Ryan is anything took TOO LONG to implement measures to combat the growing disruptions and murdering going on - Fontaine was counting on Ryan not doing anything to conquer all of Rapture. Consider though that is the way the game was designed - the plot said the place had to fall apart and 'lo and behold' it did. Things had to be shown done illogically and contradictionally to make that happen so that Bioshock could be a mass-slaughter Shoot-em-up game.' ***' ........ ^^^^^^^^ The WYK room in Rapture Central Control shows that Ryan has worked out what was happening and all trhe resistance that Jack runs into seems just a ploy (consider if you ever could fight a Zerg rush of 20 Fly-bots and 30 splicers simultaneously). The part the developers missed was they COULD have had a EPIC Twist of Ryan Faking His Death (like Fontaine had) and then aiming Jack at Fontaine ('even if at that point Ryan had just about won the Civil War and Atlas was on his last legs)' * * Despite Ryan's idea that "men are entitled to the sweat on his brow" he contradicts himself by killing Julie Langford for perfecting the Lazarus Vector Formula. There is a possibility that Ryan could be sexist. However, there was never any history of civil rights movements in Rapture prior to the Rapture Civil War. ** ' .......... ^^^^ She was assisting an enemy agent (whon it was announced publicly had a price on his head) and thus betraying Rapture I still find it hard to believe he had a poison bomb in her office ready for that eventuality and that he might have had better use for her versus killing her -- but then that 'Plot Says So' thing for dramatic effect in a GAME - to stage a particular scene - should we be suprised they didnt follow thru on the logic too far????' BTW poisoning a few trees in Arcadia - hardly threatening the City- when it would take whole forests to generate the needed Oxygen (and other equivalent Oxygen generating operations/businesses also existed in the City). : ::I moved the preceding trivia point about possible sexism to the talk page because Ryan (in his own view) wasn't really being a hypocrite. He said in his own speech to Langford right before she died that he owned her research laboratory, so technically he also owned anything she produced, including the trees in Arcadia and the Lazarus Vector. He thinks that Arcadia is the "sweat of his brow" and that he is entitled to the profit of anything in it. He actually read off part of the contract to her while the poison filled her room. His killing of Langford isn't sexist; it was pretty much the same as when Ryan killed McDonagh for betraying him. ~'Gardimuer' [[User talk:Gardimuer|{ 'ʈalk''' }]] 00:12, April 28, 2010 (UTC) Andrew Ryan: Ex Soviet? Is Andrew Ryan really a ex-Soviet? I thought the reason he started Rapture was because the US Gov't wanted to turn his park into a national forest? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by (talk • ) 02:19, 2007 September 1. Please sign your posts with ~~~~! :I think so too... —The preceding unsigned comment was added by (talk • ) 04:23, 2007 September 4. Please sign your posts with ~~~~! ::Andrew Ryan is an ex soviet. Go to the BioShock home page and read the section called characters, you'll find that he came to the US during WWII. You're also right about the forst thing, but I can't verify that it was American soil that the forest was on because I haven't looked into it. He tells you about it in Arcadia, you can read the diary log about it (yes the game keeps a log of all com messages and audio diaries you've had). —The preceding unsigned comment was added by (talk • ) 05:16, 2007 September 4. Please sign your posts with ~~~~! :::Also, in the Working Late Again audio diary, he refers to himself as Andrei, the Russian version of Andrew. --Klivian 13:17, 4 September 2007 (UTC ::::I'm rather confused. The article says he left the Soviet Union in 1919, two years before the end of the Russian Civil War and the creation of the USSR. That's kind of impossible. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by (talk • ) 20:34, 2009 January 11. Please sign your posts with ~~~~! :::::Not necessarily. There was a lot of travel to and from Bolshevik Russia (the USSR wasn't set up until after Lenin's death in the '20s) in the early days - or he could have smuggled (the irony!) himself out illegally. Stalin was the one who created the vast totalitarian state we assosciate the Soviets with today, although Lenin of course was a dictator too. 12:04, August 14, 2011 (UTC) :::::* ::::::I think he meant it was impossible for Ryan to leave the Soviet Union when it didn't exist yet. The Bolsheviks were in power, but, as you said, the USSR was not set up until the 20s.--Darth Oblivion 23:17, October 1, 2011 (UTC) ::::::............^^^^^^^^^^^ The Novel explains his family in Russia was murdered by the Communists after the revolution started and he left in the 20s as a pre-teen and built his industrial empire after getting to the US in the decades before WW2. ::::::Its likely he also was 'down' on religion because the Orthodox church in Russia was incapable of stopping the mass murder the communists perpetrated. :::::: Voice Actor Who is the voice actor for Andrew Ryan? And I think we should start listing these for current articles. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by (talk • ) 19:15, 2008 January 20. Please sign your posts with ~~~~! A number of points on Ryan Yes, Ryan is supposed to be a former citizen of the Soviet Union, having fled for the United States in 1919 (he says as much in one of the public address announcements, when he describes his history). "Ryan" is thus not likely to be his original last name. He later became disenchanted with the US Government as well (including the forest incident as one example). The name "Andrew Ryan" is a play on Ayn Rand, the author and philosopher whose work inspired much of the story of Bioshock. Rand also came to the United States as a refugee from the Soviet Union in real life, changed her name, and was also later a critic of a number of political policies and social trends in the mid-20th century United States as well. Much of the philosophy Ryan expounds is based on Rand's philosophy of Objectivism. The voice actor for Ryan is Armin Shimerman, a very talented Hollywood character actor probably best known for his work in several Star Trek series and the Buffy The Vampire Slayer TV show. Ryan's appearance rather reminded me of Howard Hughes, maybe around the late 1940s or early 1950s: the very model of a brilliant and visionary, but extremely unbalanced, titan of industry and science (who also was known for many dalliances with young and famous women, fought multiple conflicts with the US government, fled the United States, and died in deluded, self-imposed exile). Ken Levine explicitly described Ryan as "Howard Hughes and Ayn Rand together". The similarity with Orson Welles also recalls Welles' writing and portrayal of Charles Foster Kane in Citizen Kane, a thin guise of the real-life publishing magnate William Randolph Hearst. 12:16, 13 July 2008 (UTC) :I know this is a really old post, but just wanted to say that, no, he wasn't a citizen of the Soviet Union. The Bolsheviks had seized power by 1919, but the Soviet Union actually wasn't established until 1922.--Darth Oblivion 23:12, October 1, 2011 (UTC) Is He Really Dead? Seeing as it is possible to turn on the vita chamber after he dies, wouldn't that revive him? Or do you have to die while it was turned on for it to revive you, this was never really explained, so can we be certain that he really IS dead? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by (talk • ) 16:37, 2008 July 23. Please sign your posts with ~~~~! :Since Ryan died while the chamber was off, I would say, yes. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by (talk • ) 05:01, 2008 August 21. Please sign your posts with ~~~~! ::I like to think that after Jack gets the Key to the City, he would use the Vita-CHamber to revive Ryan. He would then keep him tied up in a wheelchair and feed him through a tube against his will. Jack would mash up Ryans food and change his diapers every day. And at every possible opportunity remind Ryan how he has enough of a burden feeding ≈20 children/holding the world hostage with a soviet nuke. But even though Ryan does not contribute in any way what so ever, so he would be forced to sit in agony as he is a parasite but can do nothing about it. ::–any comments? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by (talk • ) 01:34, 2008 September 24. Please sign your posts with ~~~~! :::However, it should be noted that, if you are killed in Rapture's Control Room, the Vita-Chamber is automaticly, so Ryan would have been revived by the reactivated chamber. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by (talk • ) 20:03, 2009 November 4. Please sign your posts with ~~~~! ::: :::While yes it should be noted that if you get killed you respawn at the de-activated vita-chamber though i believe this is done due to the fact that it is a game and you kind of have to respawn. Also i think it shows that it is turned off so the developers could clear up the fact that he was dead why are his audio diaries just hanging around? Seriously, they are never placed in a particular spot, they're just around. During Rapture's prime, would Ryan just wander the various districts, reciting his philosophies into his recorder, then like, look around to see no one is looking, then toss the cassette behind a trash can or in the shelf of an empty market stall, sorry for this abhorrent run on sentence. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by (talk • ) 1:26, 2008 September 24. Please sign your posts with ~~~~! :There are likely two different reasons: If 2K left all of his diaries stashed in a closet in Rapture Central Control, it would be sort of anticlimactic, and you would barely get to know him in the first half of the game. OR, the place where he kept his diaries was ransacked and therefore his diaries became scattered all over Rapture. I rather believe it's the former, to preserve game atmosphere. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by (talk • ) 01:38, 2008 September 24. Please sign your posts with ~~~~! ::Maybe you could buy his speeches? 12:08, August 14, 2011 (UTC) Another possibility on Ryan's motivations for death? Is it possible that Ryan chose to die at the hands of Jack, believing other assassins would be sent? Since Jack cleared the path to Ryan's office, the door would seem to be open for Fontaine to send splicers after Ryan. Perhaps, knowing this, Ryan chose to die in a calculated attempt to free Jack, or set him against Atlas/Fontaine? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by (talk • ) 10:47, 2009 March 23. Please sign your posts with ~~~~! :It could also be that what he continuously repeated while dying, "A man chooses, a slave obeys." was a motif for it. Of course not as the only reason for his suicide, but as one of them, that he was epmhasizing this point. Also possible that since he was a man of strict morals and ideals, yet he had allowed some of the to become corrupt he wanted to hold onto the ones he had not betrayed, that is the one relating to the quote mentioned above. This is just speculation though... —The preceding unsigned comment was added by (talk • ) 09:46, 2009 June 24. Please sign your posts with ~~~~! Ryan and Atlas The article states that, "Although Frank Fontaine set Jack on his journey to kill Ryan using the would you kindly trigger phrase, Ryan knew exactly what was occurring." With this I tend to disagree. I feel as if Ryan did not figure out what was going on until Jack was halfway to knocking out the power on his mag locks on his office door. Ryan informs Jack over the radio that there is a feeling of nostalgia that Jack is experiencing (this one of the earlier indications of Ryan becoming aware that Jack is his son). Even moments before his death Ryan states, "You hear me, Atlas?! Andrew Ryan offers you nothing but ashes!" I do not think that Ryan ever figured out that Atlas and Fontaine were the same person. I know, he knew Fontaine had purchased Jack's embryo, and that Atlas had control over Jack. But I do not think Ryan ever realized they were the same person. Any thoughts? --Atlas the Fisherman 22:04, 10 June 2009 (UTC) :Another thing to note is that he did not initially release that the intruder was his son- your first encounter with him, the first time he speaks with you directly, he interrogates you about what foreign intelligence agency sent you- "which one of the bitches sent you? CIA? KGB?" (paraphrase, don't remember the exact wording). As for the "You hear me, Atlas?!" line, I think it's entirely possible he meant it mockingly- if you changed it to "You hear me, 'Atlas'?!", the meaning changes significantly. I think perhaps he was aware of Atlas's true identity, and scorned him for not being man enough to face him openly. 20:52, 2 July 2009 (UTC) ::Actually Ryan KNEW the whole time that Jack was his son since he step into Rapture because the sercurity system didn't tear him a new asshole the first time he saw a turret —The preceding unsigned comment was added by (talk • ) 00:12, 2009 July 6. Please sign your posts with ~~~~! :::This is the whole story with Jack,Andrew,Atlas,and Fontaine.Andrew Ryan impregnated a showgirl(hooker,stripper,I don't know what they're called)named Jasmine Jolene,Ryan was unaware of this so Jasmine had the embryo(Jack)removed and sold it to Fontaine.Suchong,Fontaine,and Tenenbaum genetically alter and brainwash the embryo to jump when anyone says,"Would you kindly".Ryan found out about this and killed Jasmine,before the boss fight with Fontaine he mentions sending Jack up in a sub,so apparently Jack was sent up,and brang back down in order to,"Go to Ryan's office and kill the son of a bitch",in other words assassinate the now somewhat insane Andrew.I think that Ryan always knew somewhere in the back of his mind that Jack was his son,or related to him.Know it was possible that Andrew had no clue because Jack could have easily hacked the security tech just as the splicers have,I doubt Ryan knew that Atlas was actually Fontaine,maybe towards his death Andrew realized that Jack could be his son and Atlas was Fontaine. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by (talk • ) 21:08, 2009 August 26. Please sign your posts with ~~~~! Sources for some of the paragraphs. What is the source for all that stuff in his article about him being the "youngest billionaire in the country," and when he was born, etc...? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by (talk • ) 17:17, 2009 June 23. Please sign your posts with ~~~~! :Unfortunately, I have no idea. I really wish people would source things more often... -[[User:Stigma-231|§'tigma-231']] ♠powerful phrase {τalk}{ } 17:19, 23 June 2009 (UTC) ::I don't recall hearing or reading anything like that in the game, so besides that i don't think there is anything "canon" from the game. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by (talk • ) 19:53, 2009 June 23. Please sign your posts with ~~~~! :::I think the bio stuff (i.e. early life) should be wiped until the whole thing and be sourced properly! Its uncanon! —The preceding unsigned comment was added by (talk • ) 20:16, 2009 July 24. Please sign your posts with ~~~~! ::::Ok. Here's the ultimatum. Either somebody finds a source for all the fanon early life information or it will be removed in one week. ~'Gardimuer' [[User talk:Gardimuer|{ ʈalk }]] 21:06, December 27, 2009 (UTC) possible trivia? If you lose the "E" and the "W" in "Andrew Ryan" it becomes a perfect anagram of "Ayn Rand". Perhaps worthwhile to add to the article? 07:28, 30 June 2009 (UTC) :NOPE —The preceding unsigned comment was added by (talk • ) 00:13, 2009 July 6. Please sign your posts with ~~~~! :It's not an anagram if you add letters, so I'm going to remove that edit. 19:13, June 11, 2014 (UTC) Information from SITS I suggest that information regarding the building of Rapture and Andrew Ryan's various companies be added here from the Something In The Sea website.--Gardimuer 04:44, October 16, 2009 (UTC) :I agree; it shows how some of the city was built. Ryan was a business partner of Lutwidge's and used steel from Scarlet Sovereign to build part of Rapture! Where should we include this? Before Bioshock, yeah? --Epstein CoR 19:55, December 27, 2009 (UTC)Epstein CoR ::I went ahead and added it to the "History" section in the paragraph that begins: "Ryan's response was to use his entire fortune to build Rapture" ~'Gardimuer' [[User talk:Gardimuer|{ ʈalk }]] 20:23, December 27, 2009 (UTC) Death :(The following was moved to the talk page by Freezing Mike, 00:16, 2010 January 4) It is possible that Andrew Ryan had himself killed because he lacked the courage to live in a world not under his own control, and instead chooses permanent death. This is ironic because Ryan, who never hesitated to murder others for his own ends, cannot find the fortitude to commit the final act himself, instead relying upon Jack to do it for him. It is also possible that Andrew Ryan saw this as his only chance to be a father to his son; to teach him to be a man, not a slave. He orders Jack to kill him to demonstrate that only a man can choose his own destiny. If Jack was truly a man, he would not be controlled and the conditioning could be broken. Likewise, the deactivated Vita-Chamber shows Jack that if Ryan could not break the conditioning, then he would rather die than live as a slave to Atlas's whims. If this is the case, he succeeded; Jack immediately sets out to free himself from Atlas' control, and ultimately avenges his father by slaying Fontaine. : ^^^^^ : ???? How about seizing Jack - deprogramming him. Then destroying Fontaine - who was on his last legs at that point --- one good Zerg Rush of Pheromone controlled Splicers ..... Or put out a 10000 ADAM Bounty on Atlas and it would have been over pretty quick (just takes one splicer to come up behind Atlas and give him a club or shotgun blast to the back of his head). : No he illogically leaves Jack still under Fontaine's control with Jack all ready (WYK) to hand all of Rapture to Atlas/Fontaine (after stopping the so called Self Destruct).. Not too logical to leave so much to chance. ''' : '''Simpler actually if Ryan was to Faked His Own Death so he could launch Jack at Fontaine and watch as he was taken down (or if that failed, continue his goals to erdicate Atlas and the RESTORE his City - which would have been possible once the disruptions and murderes stopped) : All very Dramatic -- but ultimately less than it could have been. Bioshock 2?? Hmm, I really wonder if he's going to appear in Bioshock 2. Hope he's still alive. Plus, I noticed his Bioshock 2 portrait looks older than his Bioshock 1 portrait. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by (talk • ) 11:09, 2010 January 16. Please sign your posts with ~~~~! :His portrait in Bioshock 1 was clearly an old photo (circa 1946 maybe???). Ryan was 68 in Bioshock 1, but his portrait looked nowhere near that age. However, in Bioshock 2, it looks like they used a more updated portrait, probably from the late 50's, so he looks older. Or, an even simpler explanation is that they simply felt they needed to redesign the portrait. Either way, Ryan's dead. Ant423 17:12, January 16, 2010 (UTC)Ant423 ::What confuses me though is that his hair's thicker and somehow younger-looking in his Bioshock 2 portrait than in his Bioshock 1. Yet, he looks older there than in his Bioshock 1 portrait. Hmm.... —The preceding unsigned comment was added by (talk • ) 09:24, 2010 February 3. Please sign your posts with ~~~~! what if subject delta = andrew ryan, who put himself in storage for ten years or so to survive from the upcoming civil war, and the obvious destruction of rapture. he could have sent an imposter to play him while he was gone and then come back as in the all life maintaining, subject delta, who he puts off, but goes online for somewhat ten years later ( his mind could erase). it could be also possible that sofia lamb was secretly so in love with ryan that they for everybodys surprise got a undesired child, eleanor that ryan rejected and thats why lamb went crazy and wanted to kill the man who he once loved. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by (talk • ) 16:23, 2010 February 3. Please sign your posts with ~~~~! :I highly doubt that Ant423 22:33, February 3, 2010 (UTC)Ant423 ::believe me, RYAN is NOT DEAD. and haven't you thought the relationship between FONTAINE and LAMB, two arch enemies of ryan? there is (was) something going on between these two and ryan... —The preceding unsigned comment was added by (talk • ) 14:05, 2010 February 6. Please sign your posts with ~~~~! Possible Revival? Could it be possible (in theory) for Andrew to be revived if someone could find his body? Because Eleanor was able to revive Delta after 12 years with just some DNA. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by (talk • ) 07:07, 2010 February 11. Please sign your posts with ~~~~! I strongly beleive so,but at the same time,it doesn't seem likely. 23:58, September 21, 2010 (UTC) It's possible, of course. But I think as far as the Bioshock narrative is concerned, Andrew Ryan is going to remain dead. There's really no incentive for anyone to bring him back, and it's unlikely anyone still in Rapture at the end of Bioshock 2 has the technical know-how to bring him back in the first place. RaptureWhaleFan 03:30, February 16, 2011 (UTC) For Bioshock 3 (the real one) they could do anything needed - Ryan back to life or never died - easy. Some people say the Devs/Designers have declared "Ryan is Dead" - well it matters not what they say when potential game profits are at stake. One hopes that the game resumes its Sci-Fi aspects instead of continuing down the path of utter Fantasy that Infinite perpetrated . . There's no reference Where does it say the atomic bomb on hiroshima was the "last straw" for him? There's no reference and i looked through his audio diaries and found nothing about it. it must be in some radio message, but where?Prof.HubertFransworth 19:06, May 26, 2010 (UTC) :What about loading screen quotes, and information not yet listed on this wiki? I feel I remember him talking about the bomb and all that... feeling it was a sign of the surface being bad or something. ~''Ṃᶒɠą§ɔîéɳčę' [[User talk:MegaScience|{ '''talk }]]'' 19:50, May 26, 2010 (UTC) ::I checked the Public Service announcements. It seems that there was no specific event that caused Ryan to decide to build Rapture, though his hatred of social programs during the Great Depression seems to have been a major deciding factor. One would think it was Hiroshima since Rapture was built the year after, but that's speculation at best. I honestly think that line should be removed. ::On a side note, are you sure you're not getting mixed up with Julie Langford? Her in-game history states that she did work in Japan during WWII, so maybe that has something to do with it? But anyways, read the announcements. Rapture's construction sounds more like a spur of the moment thing. Ant423 20:51, May 26, 2010 (UTC) :::I think the part about him being influenced by Hiroshima may have come from an early interview with Ken Levine. ~'Gardimuer' [[User talk:Gardimuer|{ ʈalk }]] 22:01, May 26, 2010 (UTC) ::::In that case the interview should be cited. Don't know where to find it though. Ant423 03:02, May 27, 2010 (UTC) :::::I checked and it's not in the announcments or any place where i can find it. i think it should be removed too, along with 2 facts: about frank fontaine and atlas being his arch enemies and him not figuring out because they had different ideology, different methods and most of all, fontaine was said to be dead. and the second is about the unique models, i may be wrong here but i think Frank Fontaine(boss form) has a different model and so does dr. Tenenbaum and Julie Langford and maybe more.Prof.HubertFransworth 23:38, May 28, 2010 (UTC) ::::::As Gardimuer said, the fact was said in a interview. Fontaine and Atlas were probably enemies to keep Ryan more off his trail. Fontaine's boss form obviously is its own model, although all the other characters are recycled. Just different textures. Steinman was a retextured Grossman, Tenenbaum was a retextured Lady Smith, Atlas (as he appeared to Jack) is a retextured Toasty, etc. By 'retextured', I mean that it is the EXACT same model, but with different colors/clothing/however-you'll-understand-it. ~''Ṃᶒɠą§ɔîéɳčę' [[User talk:MegaScience|{ '''talk }]]'' 00:18, May 29, 2010 (UTC) :::::::No no, I said it may be from an interview. If we can't find a source for the Hiroshima connection just remove it. ~'Gardimuer' [[User talk:Gardimuer|{ ʈalk }]] 03:45, May 29, 2010 (UTC) ::::::::No, Gardimuer, I remember it vaguely too. That's why I was agreeing and such. I wish I kept track of interviews, but I feel it was in one too. ~''Ṃᶒɠą§ɔîéɳčę' [[User talk:MegaScience|{ '''talk }]]'' 03:54, May 29, 2010 (UTC) ::::::::I found it!! Well, I don't know if this is the exact interview you're talking about but Ken Levine seems to suggest that the bomb inspired Ryan to build Rapture. Ant423 03:57, May 29, 2010 (UTC) :::::::::Wow, Ant, wtf. I JUST got that interview no more than 10 minutes ago. I was waiting for Gardimuer to cite it and such. Here's the conversation proof I have: :~''Ṃᶒɠą§ɔîéɳčę' [[User talk:MegaScience|{ '''talk }]]'' 04:20, May 29, 2010 (UTC) : : : : : : : : : : : : : : :That's great. I guess we finally have our citation. Interesting site, too. Ant423 04:37, May 29, 2010 (UTC) : : ::::: :: :: : Relationship Who was Ryan in a serious relationship with, Diane McClintock or Jasmine Jolene? Diane calls herself "Ryan's Mistress" but she went with him on vacation to Adonis which seems like girl friend stuff, but Jolene's posters say she's "Ryan's favorite gal". Was it first one then the other, both at once, or what? I feel dumb, somebody help me out.MarcoDelMarco 04:55, June 25, 2010 (UTC) :I got the impression that Diane was his girlfriend (maybe even his fiance judging from the Generation audio diary), and he was having an affair with Jolene. ~'Gardimuer' [[User talk:Gardimuer|{ ʈalk }]] 15:49, June 25, 2010 (UTC) : :My belief is that the relationship with Diane happened after his relationship with Jasmine. The posters for Jasmine advertise her as "Andrew Ryan's Favorite Gal," which you would think he'd disapprove of if he was with Diane at the time, given the implications of such a statement. RaptureWhaleFan 04:15, February 18, 2011 (UTC) Accent? How does a Russian born American speak with a Brittish accent? 05:47, July 27, 2010 (UTC) It's possible that he learned English (in Russia) from a British teacher. 23:02, September 1, 2010 (UTC) It's similar to if you take a British person and put them in America, sooner or later, they'll use the accent. 03:21, May 23, 2013 (UTC) Ryan apparently came to America in the middle 20s so had plenty of time to take elocution lessons (as well as build his industrial empire) -- though it would have been interesting to have a few occasions of him reverting in situations of high emotion. . . Bioshock Infinite...? (Spoilers) I don't think fan speculation should come under the Behind the Scenes section, the Wiki is for facts only, right? Besides, there's more to suggest that Booker=Jack anyway. I would remove it, but I'm sort of new and I don't want to tick people off already by acting out of line. Thegreatvortigaunt (talk) 23:39, March 30, 2013 (UTC) : There's not really a case to be made that Booker is actually Ryan, but they have to be related somehow. Bioshock states that Jack must be within Ryan's genetic ballpark (brother, cousin, parent, etc.) in order to use the bathysphere system, and (SPOILERS) Booker uses the bathysphere at the end of Bioshock Infinite. Hence, they must have some genetic similarity, whether it's brother, cousin, parent, or some convoluted alternate-dimension thing going on. 17:25, March 31, 2013 (UTC) ::First of all, the notion that Booker DeWitt is (or is related to) Andrew Ryan is completely unsubstantiated bullshit. However, Ryan's name is seen on the picket signs around the Bathysphere Station, indicating that he exists in the world that Booker and Elizabeth fled to. So, maybe we should at least add the BioShock Infinite icon to his page as this does count as an appearance, technically. ::. ::. ::. ::. ::. ::. ::. ::. ::Infinite universes - a great crutch for Fantasy where anything you need to happen can happen with NO justification needed whatsoever. Inconsistant, illogical, revocation of physical laws - oh its that quantum theory stuff -- in future I'll just use the word 'cuz' (so dont even bother having to ask). ::Seriously ----- the only reason they wind up in some Rapture somewhere (over the rainbow) is to create a tenuous link for why they could call the game Bioshock (to milk the branding = $$$). On arrival Booker and Elizabeth could just as well have been met by a Purple Unicorn and a power suited Hello Kitty and greeted by THAT Raptures mayor Harry Potter. ...well. Hmm. Silly anon creature. Molotov.cockroach (talk) 02:33, July 13, 2013 (UTC) Andrew Ryan lives! Ok, so this guy's DNA is tied to the vita chambers, which means he would still be alive........ Dont let Logic or Reason or Facts get in the way of the Plot www.youtube.com/watch?v=tShLLg_5hr4 proof ... Testxyz (talk) 09:47, November 29, 2013 (UTC) ---- ---- Fontaines Smuggling Rings demise : " Although these efforts were largely successful in breaking the back of the smuggling operation as a whole, Fontaine himself remained elusive, always managing to be "where the evidence isn't." " Did it 'break the back' ? Depending on how much the Novel is taken as Canon - it mentions because Ryans law enforcers really couldnt get any solid evidence on Fontaine so Ryan couldnt really do anything. They kept losing any witnesses they needed for the case (Council would hear the prosecution case??) We see this in the actual game with "you dont fuck fontaine, he fucks you" said by his employees or on Sullivan? torturing a guy he says that what they are doing to him is nothing compared to what Fontaine would do.... Only when Fontaine was 'dead' and his smugglers den was discovered (Was it ever??? by Ryans guys?? -- but then Ryan allegedly sends splicers when YOU get there... Maybe Ryan was using YOU as a birddog to discover its location ???) was THAT smuggling operation finished (not to say there werent several others in Rapture or that Fontaine prepositioned his second 'Operation' elsewhere to be resumed on his 'death' to bring in goodies for Atlas) Cause for 'decline' : "many Rapture citizens felt that essential jobs such as food processing, cleaning, and simple maintenance were beneath them. This led to widespread dissatisfaction when these jobs were neglected, leading to an eventual economic recession throughout Rapture." Likely not true. There were plenty of ordinary people there to escape things in the Surface World (post WW2 there were millions who would leave simply to get to a better place). Those people unlike many today actually knew how to work and accepted it. The earlier economic downturn was when the major city construction ceased, and a number of construction workers had to readjust and re-integrate into the economy (which they apparently largely did as that was around 1952). So for that recession, things were able to get back to normal. The BIG economic distress happened because of Fontaine using ADAM as a tool to take over - the Kashmir Incident broke confidence in public safety, and the economy could not operate normally with murderous Splicers wandering the streets (Rapture had not been a police state and Ryan's men were not really equipt to deal with ADAM powered terrorists). The Audio Diaries spoke of a 'Run on the Bank' which disrupts normal business operations, as people become more cautious. Businesses failed and more people cant pay others, and it snowballs. So it was NOT disatisfaction with 'menial' jobs, but LACK of jobs which gave Fontaine/Atlas easy prey for their 'easy promises' to desperate people. And since this is a shoot-em-up game, no other solutions could/would be offered which might prevent the dystopic situation required for the mass-slaughter behavior of the player. Testxyz (talk) 09:35, November 29, 2013 (UTC) Whaaaa ? Excised --- "In an open civilian's house directly after exiting through the back of the building of the Fraternal Order of the Raven, a composite sketch is being made as officers question a woman about a suspect. While one would at first impression assume it to be about Booker DeWitt, closer inspection however would reveal the drawn face to bear a most striking resemblance to that of Andrew Ryan. One should note its probability due to the existence of Tears. " Doesnt look anything like Ryan. Two eyes, nose, mustache .... Testxyz (talk) 04:45, December 3, 2013 (UTC) Who exactly is that sketch supposed to be? ZanyDragon (talk) 04:50, December 3, 2013 (UTC) Police skettch of intruder in Columbia ?? Testxyz (talk) 04:52, December 3, 2013 (UTC) In Fallout New Vegas there is a challenge called "A slave obeys", which requires the player character to kill Mr House(character very similiar to Ryan) with a golf club. This is obvious reference to Ryan and his death, so maybe we add it to the trivia section? 17:46, January 18, 2014 (UTC) Economics - not a game developers area of expertise : "By populating a city with ambitious experts, opportunists, geniuses, and breakthrough artists, Ryan set up a top-heavy class system. Many Rapture citizens felt that essential jobs such as food processing, cleaning, and simple maintenance were beneath them, which caused dissatisfaction when these jobs were neglected." Except that alot of these "essential jobs" are actually as said ESSENTIAL and since they need to get done (can only be 'neglected' so much) someone WILL do them for more money which is part of the balancing systems under Capitalism. The toilet scrubber will get paid more and will attract someone to do it and since there is no slavery or bonded servitude -- you cannot force people to do the work for low pay (except criminals like Fontaine which was far too contrived with what he was shown to get away with) . In a technical place like Rapture, it may rather have been a case of Technology eliminating jobs (the mechanical toilet scrubber where one 'operator' now does the work of dozens of manual laborers). As mentioned in-game : when construction largely ended, putting alot of those workers 'out of work' was what actually lead to earlier economic distress (which BTW the city weathered). But then that kind of situation was nothing new in the surface world they came from --- and remember THESE people were supposed to be the 'go getters','innovators',etc... more likely to be willing to retrain and relearn and reapply themsleves to the NEW jobs and opportunities. Instead they (the writers) make believe Rapture is filled with parasite dross ready to leap at "free" handouts and to protest not being allowed to be parasites and buying into the socialism that the people in Rapture were supposedly there to get away from. The majority of the people (the ones who agreed with and supported Ryan and his philosophy) are never heard from. We actually are just hearing the whinings of a small minority played up as if they were the majority. But then you need an 'Atlas' for the plot so presto-chango he becomes some great rebel leader vying with Ryan for power and able to inspire rediculously stupid treason and betrayal when he really would have been ignored or stepped upon by the populace. Again as Ive said before, all of what we get in the game is to facilitate it being a contrived Fail-topia - as a setting for mass slaughter by the player - a shoot-em-up game with cardboard cuttout 'enemies'. And when it comes to intefering with 'the plot', logic/reason/reality are not to intrude or be of any priority. Testxyz (talk) 03:01, January 31, 2014 (UTC) Where is the other Audio Diary from BaS ? "When speaking to Elizabeth for the final time, he states that 'You're one of a kind in this world, or others', suggesting he knew of her true origins." ''Ryans New Years Eve Speech - "''has been a year of ''trials ... and with that strength you shall rebuild." What might these 'trials' be and what would cause Ryan to use those words 'shall rebuild' with that inflection? Fontaine Shootout... (possibly the biggest incident of violence upto that time) Takeover of Fontaine Futuristics (no mention of any other assets).. A philosophical shock with or without motives more than stabilizing Rapture on Ryans part (Alone_at_Last) But what else would need to be 'rebuilt' ? ADAM shortages caused by chaos at Fontaine Futuristics until Ryan had the City take it over and reopen/run it ? (Secondary disruption of fishing operations - food shgortages til it was sorted out ?) A whole lot of people going 'cold turkey' and rioting (or calling for Ryan to "do something") ? Other incidents (some catastrophic leaks causing casualties- Dionysus and/or others) ? Huge criminal operation exposed. Extended criminal involvement with Fontaines Smuggling being disclosed (disruptions of dependant businesses and involved influential people going to jail) ? Remember that Rapture still largely in a state of Normalcy upto this point, the coming Civil War and its disruptions/destruction/fatalities is likely magnitudes more disturbing (but THAT hasnt happened yet). 13:53, August 4, 2014 (UTC) When Rapture was completed ... Ryan was 35 ... Rapture was started, not completed ~1946 building and immigration of population continued for years following 16:49, January 10, 2016 (UTC) Early Life in Russia .... near Minsk... A fairly complicated situation there : 1813–1917 To Russian Empire 1918–1918 Under German occupation 1918–1919 To Belarusian National Republic 1919–1919 To Byelorussian SSR 1919–1920 Under Polish occupation (actually changed hands twice) 1921–1941 To Byelorussian SSR, since 1922 in the Soviet Union 17:18, January 10, 2016 (UTC) So Andrew Ryan is now supposed to be a cutout American Jew who rejects Judaism in every way ? A jew in name only, used supposedly to give diversity and authenticity to a computer game which mostly deals with killing things. Noteworthy also is the majority of evil/maniacal characters seem to be a 'Jewish'. This is not overly complementary and might seem a bit more like overcompensation. 00:03, March 7, 2016 (UTC) "Authentic Diversity" - That interview was in 2015 ? Seems a bit RetCon. Was there a clue anywhere in the Bioshock games or in the Novel (John Shirley might have elaborated upon it) indicating this? "Andrew" is the patron saint of Russia (Orthodox Christian Russia) and Ukraine. Is that really a name a Jew would take or be allowed to take ? In the novel, his fathers name is 'Pyotr' (Peter is another important Christian saint) and a relative is Demitri (? St. Demetrios is another Orthodox saint). Shirley didn't get the memo? Seems a bit fishy. Levine's recent interviews mention some new game he's trying to organize (and something about "narrative Legos" which sounds like variable+player shapeable plots to increase replayability). 17:05, March 26, 2016 (UTC) Playing through BS1 again and heard this radio msg from Ryan (Hephaestus 09. Andrew Ryan - Rapture Will Thrive) : "Rapture is coming back to life. Even now, can't you hear the breath returning to her lung? The shops reopening, the schools humming with the thoughts of young minds? My city will live. My city will thrive. And, ''when that day comes, we'll use your tombstone for paving tiles." In BS1 they had to vilify Ryan to make him 'the evil enemy' so you were willingly will think its OK to go kill him as part of their 'twist' plot. If I'm not mistaken, they are here invoking the Nazis who maliciously desecrated jewish graves and cemeteries and actually paved roads with the tombstones (famous pictures of it later). Is that likely something any Jew would ever be saying? Laying it on rather thick, but most probably NOT with any inkling about Ryan's recently disclosed background being known to the writers. Seems like this rather late retroactive declaration by Levine is being made up now because he is fishing for a new job and he's attempting to stand out by using 'socially relevancy' again. 21:17, May 5, 2016 (UTC) Andrew Ryan as an "Enemy?" Tying back into the discussion on the Talk:Grace Holloway page of whether or not Grace Holloway and the other NPCs count as "Enemies," we move onto the primary rivals of each of the BioShock games. Again we must not let strict definitions prevent this site from being useful to visitors, researchers, and general users. Why count Ryan as an Enemy when "We don't categorize Comstock, Atlas or Lamb as these?" Well... maybe we should. Perhaps it was an oversight that they hadn't been categorized as such up til now, this Wiki is always improving. Or perhaps they once were and someone removed the category over an objection, and it wasn't noticed. The fact remains undeniable, these individuals are the primary antagonists of each game. They must, Must, MUST be counted as Enemies to the protagonist. They prevent your advancement, they send foes to fight you, they want you dead. Unownshipper (talk) 02:30, August 16, 2016 (UTC) :Well, then I will start categorizing all the antagonists, whether they are actually fought or not, if that is alright. ( 02:34, August 16, 2016 (UTC)) ::Thank you, your assistance is appreciated. ::Unownshipper (talk) 02:44, August 16, 2016 (UTC) Personality Godzillafan4ever created a section about Ryan's personality (now removed) which I think is something that should be on the wiki. But I think the staff should discuss it a little since this is likely going to be a little controversial. Original Text :Andrew Ryan's most defining trait is his Egomania, as well as his Objectivist Ideals, which he spreads to all of Rapture. when a threat arises, He relies on his security force, under the leadership of Sullivan to deal with the threat, not directly dealing with the threat unless it is clear that there is no other option. he is also shown to have little to no tolerance for failure among his subordinates. As evident by his "Trophies" in Rapture Central Control, he is also not only reclusive like Rapture, but also has a boastful side. My Take Andrew Ryan is a man with a very complex and at time contradictory character. Ryan is self assured to the point of arrogance and can easily rub some people the wrong way. This same self assurance is also is what make makes him an inspirational figure and leader to others. Ryan was a well known workaholic with strong desire to be precise and controlling of things around him. Ryan is driven to win, to be on top and looks down on people that don't share his philosophy and work ethic. When Ryan does loose, he often reacts in a childish manner, akin to flipping a table if he lost a chess game as when he burned down a forest rather than allow it to be taken over by the government. Along with his self assurance Ryan is shown to be extremely egotistical with his image plastered all Rapture and his portrait even on the money. While capable of inspiring people, Ryan does not really seem to care about other people very much on both the personal level, as shown by his treatment of his girlfriends, or in general, as demonstrated by his cold exploitation of the Little Sisters. When Ryan does relax, he seems inclined to play golf. sm --Solarmech (talk) 15:57, April 13, 2019 (UTC) Removed Trivia The following are trivia details removed from the main page: *Considering Ryan's normal looking appearance in comparison to Splicers, it is unlikely that he was ever an ADAM user, or at least wasn't addicted to and mutated by it. Unownshipper (talk) 16:58, July 22, 2019 (UTC)